More on Drawbacks
A lot of good points were brought up in the replies to my last post on drawbacks. I delved too far into semantics and didn’t spend enough time nurturing what I really wanted to say. This post is going to look at drawbacks from the angle I should have focused more on in the first place.
The idea that “everything has a drawback” is something I put too much emphasis on in that post and ended up distracting from the main idea. Part of what I really wanted to get at is something Dom Camus got at with his reply. Here’s some of what Dom had to say:
“When drawing with a pencil, an artist spends time adding shadows. But in the context of the object depicted, a shadow is just an absence of light.
As such, the design weakness you refer to isn’t so much making drawbacks too obvious as making cards too obvious. Or, as we might more naturally put it, too easy to evaluate.”
Let’s look at Abyssal Persecutor again.
As I mentioned last time, when you look at Abyssal Persecutor you immediately figure out what the card is doing. You see the offer that wily demon is tempting you with: an above average creature in exchange for a pretty significant drawback. The riddle quickly becomes, “how do I get rid of this guy?” The card itself is obvious. (Though figuring out how to remove it might not always be.)
Now look at Pyromancer’s Ascension.
Ascension isn’t nearly as obvious. It’s a card that has no real defined routes except you need to play with a bunch of instants and sorceries with the same name. Obviously there are optimal ways to play it, but you don’t have to. I’m sure there are plenty of kitchen table players who have tried putting it into decks simply for value and the great feeling of when it actually works.
Pyromancer’s Ascension might technically have a drawback, but that’s not what’s important about the card. When you look at the card and “chunk” it in your mental inventory, you don’t think, “It’s a card that copies all of my spells but has a drawback.” You think, “If I can figure out how to jump through some hoops, all of my spells are copied.”
Similarly, when you look at a 5/5 flier for six, you don’t think, “This card has the drawback of costing six.” You think, “A 5/5 flier for six is appropriate for the cost and rarity, but might be outclassed by other options.” Okay, so maybe that’s an overly spikey viewpoint, but the point is you certainly don’t think of it as having a drawback. Compare that back to Persecutor, where you clearly group the demon in the drawback category.
So what’s the takeaway here? If a card costs less than normal it needs to have a drawback to compensate? (“Well, that’s certainly obvious,” you might be thinking.) No. I think the takeaway is that to keep any game fresh you don’t want to make the pieces and interactions too obvious. You want players to have that joy of innovation and figuring out how one piece works into a larger puzzle. Drawbacks that are spelled out can pose interesting challenges (“How do I remove this?” in the case of Persecutor) but can also lead to problems if done too often because it really constricts whatever you are trying to do, therefore making the game less fun.
It’s more interesting to hide your drawbacks in ways that the mind doesn’t think of them as drawbacks at all, like on Pyromancer’s Ascension. Ascension is considered a very fun card despite the fact that it has a gigantic, fundamental drawback. Persecutor, by comparison, is considered a risky card despite being fairly straightforward. What’s the difference?
I think two different kind of drawbacks can be defined. I’m sure there are plenty of cards that fit into neither category, but I see two different general realms of drawbacks: downside drawbacks and upside drawbacks. I feel like most players are naturally afraid of the former and enjoy playing with the latter. (Partially because it gives them goals – but once again, that’s for another blog post.)
Abyssal Persecutor has a downside drawback. It restricts you from winning the game and makes you feel scared. There are a lot of times when you won’t want to play one.
On the other hand, Pyromancer’s Ascension has an upside drawback. It doesn’t do anything until you meet pretty tough conditions, but then it turns on and gives you a bonus. A seven mana vanilla 5/5 also has an upside drawback. It has the drawback of costing seven for a 5/5, but once you’ve put it into play then you receive its upside.
Where downside drawbacks effect you immediately as the cost for something you shouldn’t have otherwise, upside drawbacks are things you have to build up to. It might be interesting to look down a list of cards with some kind of drawback and see which don’t fit into either category.
Of course, you have interesting middle cards like Glint Hawk. The Hawk is great design because to a new player it has a downside drawback, but to an experienced player it has an upside drawback. Card’s that can change like that depending on whose hands they’re in, because both new and old players feel like they understand them and are happy with them.
Anyway, let me know what you think and I’d be happy to respond some more. Talking about this with you has made for a great discussion. Thanks for all of the excellent feedback so far!
about 12 years ago
The wording is better compared to the previous article, it helps to make the point more easy to understand.
Seeing this upside/downside drawbacks is something I hand’t seen before but I can see how it works now, thanks for the insight. Using the article’s examples, Persecutor has always been a card I’ve seen as a tricky/troublesome card to play with while Ascension is something fun/challenging to play with.
about 12 years ago
I like the term “upside drawback” as a way to describe Glint Hawk, but I don’t think it usefully describes Pyromancer’s Ascension. Because really there is no upside.
The distinction you’re drawing between Persecutor and Ascension makes sense to me as a point of player psychology. Whether that’s a critical factor or a minor detail in terms of the process of design might be more controversial.
Incidentally, I feel the opposite about the cards from the way you do. I am in general wary of playing cards like Ascension because when cast it does nothing. Persecutor on the other hand has an immediate impact on play and I can solve its drawback later. (Not that this viewpoint is any “better”, I mention it to illustrate that psychological impact differs.)
about 12 years ago
Another thing to consider is that something can only have a drawback relative to another card. Persecuter has a drawback (reverse Platinum Angel) and advantage (6/6 instead of 3/3, or 2BB cost instead of 4BB cost) relative to a french vanilla creature. These are clear anchor points, so it feels like a drawback. Pyromancer’s Ascention can probably best be compared with Cast Through Time, in which case we still see a clear mana (4UUU or some such vs 1R) for drawback (immidiate gratification vs build up two counters) tradeoff.
The upshot is, to talk about drawbacks, we have to have some sort of scale for relative measuring, otherwise we can end up with a degerate case of calling opportunity costs “drawbacks”
about 12 years ago
i think you are neglecting the flavor of the cards in your evaluations of the drawbacks. Demons feel more demonic when they have strong obvious negative drawbacks. Lord of the Pit feels like a total badass since you have to feed him guys to keep him from killing you. In your last article you suggested that slinking giant would be better as a 1/4 that got +3/+0 when unblocked, but that definitely doesnt fit the flavor of a cowardly giant as well.
about 12 years ago
Hey Tom,
There’s nothing wrong with Persecutor having a negative drawback. As a demon, it definitely should! I’m not saying it shouldn’t have a drawback, but instead I was trying to illustrate the differences between its drawback and other drawbacks. Personally, I like the all around package – the design and flavor – of Persecutor a lot and wouldn’t change it.
Same kind of thing for the Giant. I mention that “there are reasons he was made the way he was (among other things, a 1/4 Giant is a little oddball) when I wrote about him. I’m not trying to say these cards are bad design at all, just look at them from a different angle.
Hope that helps shine some light on these two articles.
Dom, that’s interesting that you view the cards opposite as I expected. As always, the challenge – and some of the fun of – design is some people will see things in different ways that others. It depends on your playstyle, I suppose, and it’s good to open the mind up to different interpretations
Thanks for the comments, everyone!
Gavin
about 12 years ago
Re: Glint Hawk. I see this more as a downside drawback which can be abused to gain an advantage, as opposed to a straight up upside drawback.